06.29.06 - 11:47 am

the following are select comments from a longer discourse that make me sad and depressed.

guy #1: And I don't agree with you that "we" all know that 2nd hand smoke is bad for us. I think there has been a LOT of misleading studies done that make us believe this. As I said I personly hate it, and I stay away from places were people smoke. But I also believe that if most of the people in a bar smoke and you know there is smoking there then you should avoid it and let the people smoke there if they want. Banning it straight across the board because someone "feels" that its bad is wrong and we don't need to take more rights away from the people and give it to the government....I'm not saying one way or another about it being bad, I just don't think that has been enough studies done to point one way. There has been a lot of feelings about it though. I'm reserving my opinion until there is good proof. If you want to know my person view, I believe that it is bad for people and child, but this is completely based on a feeling and not on facts.

Tell me this. Why would you not believe that it is a normal thing for us to have warming every XXXX amount of years? Do you really think that we are so POWERFULL to change the whole climate of the planet? I don't, I think that natural changes happen with and without our help and that there is nothing we can do it change it. I think the Earth is a very powerful and can handle most of the stuff thrown at it, but that's not saying we need to test that theory and see if its true.
As for talking about facts and then what ifs. Are you saying that the iceage from the past is not a fact? Because everything I see points to past iceages and then huge warming. I mean there used to be an ocean in Utah, what happened to it? How about global warming????

I have no disrespect for the Earth matter of fact its the opposite, I think the planet if very strong and powerful. And NO I do not believe we effect the climate that much, I think the planet would and will continue with or without us.

But that it is TOTALLY your "feelings"; and it does NOT seem to be the opinion of REAL scientists. You go on believing everything that AL Gore and the other "experts" tell you; I'll stick with the facts...

guy #2: I am also not convinced that we (humans) have had a significant effect on global warming.

Is global warming bad? If it wasn't for gloabal warming then we would still be in an ice age.

The earth is always changing from warm and cold periods. And like Rich said it has happend without us around. There are so many things that affect the earths temperature. The slightest change in the suns output would change our temperatures.

guy #3: I would have to agree that I don't think that we have a big enough impact by the production of exhaust to impact the world. If we produce more CO2 then plants and algaes will grow better thus balancing the planet again. Everyone use to talk about the hole in the ozone layer at the poles being caused by greenhouse gasses. Does anyone know why you don't hear much about that anymore? Because it is not scientifically accepted as the truth anymore. Scientists have discovered that we are on the verge of a magnetic pole swap and the weakening of the magnetic fields at the poles are what is causing the hole. It is just like the theory that we are running out of oil. This is bs also. We may be starting to deplete our easiest to process oil but Canada has what they call oil sand that is said to have enough oil in just the one place to support the worlds oil needs for well over 100 years. Studies don't get paid for by people that don't have agendas. Why would someone offer funding for a study if they didn't have something to gain from it....I am quite glad that we have not had a Democrat as president in the last couple of elections. Clinton had done in the economy and it was on a severe downturn that would have only gotten worse if Gore was in office. Not to mention that the terrorists would have laughed at us as we took the Clinton approach to things and just launched some cruise missiles at them.I don't agree with everything that George Bush does but I know that he is doing what he truly believes is the right thing for the country whether it is popular or not. There has to be something said for the fact that we have not been attacked since 9/11. We have to take a much more proactive role in the world today. People will come to kill us if we do not kill them first and that takes a leader that is willing to do what is right to keep us safe even if it is not popular.

guy #1: I had totally forgot about all of the Ozone stuff, you never hear anything about it. I guess the Ozone must be all healed now, or maybe it was never really a problem... hmm makes you think maybe global warming will go the same way as the ozone and magicly disapear...

guy #4: Would anyone be less happy if they have to go to a bar/lounge/restaraunt
and not have to inhale smoke? How inconvienient is it to go outside and smoke or
have a smoking room? It just seems like a good idea, not to mention that I
do not think governments would crack down super hard anyway.

guy #1: I think smokers would be unhappy. How would you like it if someone said that you cannot drink Coke in a resturant or bar because they think its bad? Until there is solid proof that the 2nd hand smoke is bad, its really the same thing as you drinking a glass of Coke. Just cause you or I don't like it doesn't make it wrong. Why do you think the smoker should have to go outside to smoke, maybe the non-smoker should be the one going outside for fresh air.

guy #4: Chloro flourocarbons(CFC's) were the cause. The Montreal Protocal was passed in 1987 inwhich 27 countries vowed to reduce their CFC emissions becuase of the dramatic effect it had on the ozone molecule, O3. The U.S went from dumping 300K tons of CFC's into the air, down to nearly 0 by 1996. The other nations involved with the Montreal Protocol showed a similar pattern. Hence, no more CFC's, no more increasing of the hole in the ozone layer. In fact it is slowly repairing itself and I suspect that is why you dont hear about it anymore. Its not exciting news.

guy #1: Personly I see nothing wrong with choosing to go to war with Iraq, but I disagree with the way the war is being fought. They are treating it like a Police action instead of a war, and I think that's why we are having the troop deaths that we are. We have an Airforce for a reason use them...
There is a HUGE difference between a war with Iraq and one with North Korea, I think they are smart enough to realize that a political solution with them is better then a war. Because it would be very nasty with a LOT of deaths on both side. Iran is also another one that a political solution is better then a war. Just cause someone is a threat doesn't mean we always attack them, I think they try to solve it politicly first and then resort to an attack......Then I will still go back to my question. What caused all of the previous global warming events that brought the Earth out of the Ice ages? We (humans) we not there to create it so what did? I'm not discounting that it (global warming) isn't happening; I'm just questioning the cause of it. I think much of the so called "facts" are based on theories and speculation and not on actual data. Also a LOT of the scientist that are making the statements are not even climatologists then so they are basing this on there limited group of study. Before I go believing the my car is destroying the planet I won�t to know why the same thing (global warming) has happened over 7 times in the past...

for the whole debate: http://www.pnwmas.org/forums/showthread.php?t=658